Talk:D7 class
D7/K't'inga Wasn't there a D7 in ? Or am I misremembering? And the ship in is listed on both this page and . Which is it? -- Steve 20:01, 8 Dec 2004 (CET) :Both -- the term D7 class is a misnomer -- the "D7" is actually the design, which both the D7 class and the belong to, variants of the same design. (Just as the B'rel class and K'Vort class are both Birds-of-Prey, and some are D12s) -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 20:07, 8 Dec 2004 (CET) ::In the episode "Prophecy", Tuvok reports: "Tetryon readings indicate it's a D7 class cruiser." Tom Paris replies, "D7? They were retired decades ago." ::As K't'inga class cruisers are still in service at the time this episode is set, I believe the ship is a D7 class cruiser, not K't'inga class. --Defiant | ''Talk'' 11:12, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) :::Whether or not it is decommissioned is irrelevant if the class was misidentified. Therefore, obviously any corresponding speculative data about being retired is going to be wrong to. It is a K't'inga, as that was the model blatantly used by the VFX group, as well, there is a statement that was made by Mike Sussman explaining the error in the script (it's all in the link). That by no means, is any sort of "some fans believe" speculation as is now posted in the article. Adding comments about D7 variations is purely speculative, whereas this should be treated as an obvious technical error by the writers/vfx and should be explained as such, as it more or less previously was. --Gvsualan 15:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::My mistake -- I looked at the link, but only saw the first paragraph on that particular ship, where I read the suggestion that the ship was a D7 class variant. --Defiant | ''Talk'' 15:30, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::::I agree with Capt. Mike. The terms D-7 class and K't'inga-class are interchangeable. Does that really contradict Paris' line in "Prophecy"? Not necessarily. IIRC we never saw any K't'ingas in active duty in the 24th century until "The Way of the Warrior". So it's possible that the Klingons really decommissioned that class decades ago, but recommissioned and refitted them in 2372/2373 to support their war plans. And Paris, more or less out of touch with the Alpha Quadrand since 2371, simply wasn't aware of that. :::::I'd like to point out that in the last DS9 episode, if you look carefully you can see two types of Klingon ships that come from the D-7 lineage. One is the standard K'T'inga that we've grown familiar with, from DS9, the flashback episode in Voyager to Tuvok on Excelsior, and Undiscovered Country. The other is the same model used in Enterprise and Voyager. Both have completely different nacelle designs. Personally, I think that the ships seen in Enterprise and Voyager are D-7's (they match the nacelle design of the Trials and Tribble-ations D-7), whereas the others are all K'T'inga's. And as both separate models appear in the last DS9 episode, it seems reasonable to assume that as the Klingon Empire took the brunt of the war for the last few months they are reservicing and refitting old D-7 cruisers for active combat duty. - ::::::It may also be the case that the Klingons, being a tradition bound people, are loath to give up on a design that has served them well since the 22nd century. They may want to command ships just like the ships thier fathers and grandfathers flew into battle, so they just keep building varients on the D-7. It's not the most logical explaination, just an in-universe reason for cheapness on the part of the studio. -mechascooby Maximum warp Formerly: Challenge to user Gvsualan aka Alan DelBeccio to prove his (phoney) reference that the D-7 is said to go at Warp 9 in "Elaan" and "Ent Incident" Otherwise stop re-inserting that phony reference in there every time I change it. I honestly get the feeling you're more interested in spite than accurate information. --Atrahasis 23:19, 20 Dec 2005 (UTC) :I'm not sure your title, tone or attitude is appropriate for this situation, nor am I quite sure what exactly makes you think you are some sort of authority on the subject-- I do, however, highly suggest you review the end of the episode cited. However, just in case my "spite" is blinding my interpretation of what should otherwise be simple logic, let me explain the source's' of the reference here: :*Kirk: "Mr. Sulu, take us away from the Romulans. Warp factor 9." :*Sulu: "Holding at warp 9, sir." :*Romulan Officer: "Subcommander, the enemy vessel is moving away at extreme speed, sir." :*Tal: "Helmsman, flank speed. Weapons officer, stand by to fire main batteries as soon as we reach optimum range." :*Spock: "150,000 kilometers, Captain, and closing very rapidly." :*Spock: "100,000 kilometers. They should commence firing at us within the next 12.7 seconds." :Now forgive me if I am wrong, but if Ship A is going Warp 9 and Ship B is overtaking it, at "flank speed", then my Gen Ed Math skills tell me that Ship B must be going faster than Warp 9. Hardly a "phoney" assessment, and so the fact remains... --Alan del Beccio 18:06, 21 Dec 2005 (UTC) :: I tend to agree with the dialogue also. Also, I don't see the need for an accusation of spite -- a simple request for the citation would be a better tone to take -- any archivist should be able to comply with supplying their source if you simply initiate talk without the edit war. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk :::I too support the warp 9 reference of the D-7 based on the dialogue. Also agree that Atrahasis could have used a different tone to convey his/her thoughts as they came across as very hostile. --Jlandeen 09:28, November 28, 2009 (UTC) Regarding D7s/K'tinga's pre-WOTW The ship that came to pick up the Klingon renegades in "Heart of Glory" was a D7/K'tinga. The footage that showed the ship on Enterprise's viewscreen was directly lifted from the ST:TMPCapt. Christopher Donovan 02:46, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC) What's the gag? *''D7 derives from one of Shatner & Nimoy's "inside jokes" .'' I don't get it. Does anyone else? Igotbit 04:46, 29 January 2006 (UTC) : The bit was explored in a Roddenberry excerpt of The Making of Star Trek, however I cannot find my copy of it at the moment to add it. But the essence of it, as I recall, was that they were having a mock argument on what the class of Klingon ship was supposed to be-- D6 or D7. I think what the whole thing boiled down to was how seriously the production staff take the show at times, and the argument was making fun of that fact. I'll have to dig around for my copy and see if I can add the whole story. --Alan del Beccio 21:16, 13 January 2007 (UTC) ::Don't recall exactly how it went, but something to the effect of "Dammit, Leonard, this is a D7 Klingon ship, not a D6! The D6 has four doors over here and the D7 only has two!" Stated by Shatner as a joke to how seriously details are in Star Trek.--Jlandeen 09:38, November 28, 2009 (UTC) : Well you resurrected a dinosaur and apparently didn't read the article, since the "gag" is fully explained in the background section. --Alan 19:17, November 29, 2009 (UTC) One for Apocrypha The FASA Star Trek role-playing game (while obviously noncanon) identified the older, TOS-version of the design as the K't'agga class.emperorkalan 21:46, 16 March 2006 (UTC) :The FASA manuals also give the indicate that "D" in the D7 nomencalture stands for Drell a word of indeterminate meaning and origin in Klingonaase.Wejvagh 21:28, 12 February 2007 (UTC) ::The Drell are a servitor race within the Klingon Empire in John Ford's "The Final Reflection", one of the pre-Richard Arnold era's most popular Trek novels, which the FASA writers used as parital reference. The Klingon's so admired the "pod/boom/wing-body" design of Drell ships that they made it a mainstay of their OWN shipbuilidng philosophy.Capt Christopher Donovan 07:16, 16 May 2007 (UTC) Unclear statement The K't'inga-class battle cruiser would begin to replace the D-7 class during the 2270s, and were finally "retired decades" prior to 2377. (Star Trek: The Motion Picture; VOY: "Prophecy") Is the retired ship the D-7 or the K't'inga? The article sounds like the latter, but if that were the case, it doesn't make sense for it to be included on this page. In either case, it would be good to edit the text to be clearer. I started to, but realized I wasn't sure of the intention.-- 04:24, 24 May 2006 (UTC) Removed info :K't'inga is the also the name of the cruiser in Star Trek the motion Picture written by Gene Roddenberry,(speculation: the K'tinga class cruiser tho not stated as such was presented as the upgrade of the D-7 much as the new Enterprise Class was the upgrade to the constitution class in Gene Roddenbery's Novel.) This info didn't make much sense to me at first, but I guess it does now. Aside from poor spelling, it also rehashes what was already explained, so it's not really needed. --From Andoria with Love 05:59, 11 September 2006 (UTC) Constitution/D7 profile image The TAS screenshot of the Constitution and the D7 is nice, but (if anyone happens to have it handy) I think an even better addition to this artile would be the computer schematic shown in The Enterprise Incident depicting a scaled comparison between the two ship classes. 47 reference I thought it was interesting to point out that the D7 class are part of the 47 phenomenon. "D" is the fourth letter of the alphabet and hence we get 47. --The NCC Factor 16:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC) :I've removed it from 47 references, as has been done at least twice before. The fact is that it is not a number, but a letter, and it is really starting to get to be a stretch how much we allow in that article. Without official confirmation that it is a 47 reference, it should not be included, as it is not 47. In addition, User:TOSrules has pointed out that D7 was not mentioned or seen until after TOS, and therefore does not belong in the TOS section. --OuroborosCobra talk 17:05, 19 March 2007 (UTC) Sorry if it was innapropriate. Although I think I can remember other examples of letters such as Harry Kim's apartment but admittadly I can't remember whether it was an intentional reference or not. --The NCC Factor 17:34, 19 March 2007 (UTC) Oh and I'm sure that now it's on the talk page the same mistake won't be made again. --The NCC Factor 17:39, 19 March 2007 (UTC) :: Actually D7 was first referenced behind the scenes during TOS, but not on screen until much later.--Alan 02:15, 7 May 2007 (UTC) Photon Torpedo Do we really have any evidence of D7s having photon torpedoes? I don't think we do and I'll even go so far as to say that we should take it out.--AC84 03:59, 16 May 2007 (UTC) :At the very least, there are the torpedoes from . --OuroborosCobra talk 04:10, 16 May 2007 (UTC) Having seen the episode two weeks ago, I don't remember them mentioning those as photon torpedoes. They weren't even red like K't'inga's (now well-knowned photon torpedo) bolts, but in fact looked a lot like the typical green disruptor bolts, only in torpedo or in pulse form. They could even still be another form of magnetic pulses. To me, one of the (very few) real main differences between the D7 class and the K't'inga class is the now obvious change in primary weapons.--AC84 04:19, 16 May 2007 (UTC) Once again, I'm not sure if we should label the weapon fire in Prophecy as photon torpedoes. In TMP, which is around the same time Kohlar's D7 left the Empire, the photon torpedoes of the K't'inga class IKS Amar were red. I know the D7 in Prophecy was a glitch (it was actually a K't'inga) and as a result, the 24th century green photon torpedoes from DS9 were used. But since they (to my knowledge) were never called photon torpedoes and the ship was from the mid 23rd century, can we still refer to them as photon torpedoes? As oppose to simply torpedoes or unknown torpedo-like weapon? Could we still argue that these green torpedoes were the Klingon photon torpedoes of the 22nd century? I can't for the life of me remember the color of the Klingon photon torpedoes from ENT. --AC84 21:48, 19 May 2007 (UTC) :: Well, the simple fact is Klingons were using photon torpedoes for over 100 years by the time of TOS, as established in ENT, where the D5 class, Bird-of-Prey, and Raptor class were all stated as possessing/using photon torpedoes. Additionally, it was referenced in TAS that that D7 fired photon torpedoes. --Alan 23:10, 19 May 2007 (UTC) As true as that may be, don't you think a source should still need to be cited? I just bought TAS on DVD. Which episode does it state that Klingon D7s were armed with photon torpedoes? I was under the impression that the Klingon "torpedoes" in TAS were called disruptor bolts. But I see that too has been changed, for reasons unknown to me. --AC84 11:08, 20 May 2007 (UTC) :: The term 'disruptor bolt' came solely from Star Trek Concordance, whereas the script for , which I cited to the paragraph in question states that the Klingons were firing photon torpedoes. Otherwise, simple logic would seem to dictate that if they utilized photon torpedoes in the 2150s, the 2270s, and 2360s, then they surely used them during the 2260s. As for nitpicking this topic to death, I really don't see the necessity because I could point out several other articles that could used this much attention in general editing, etc. --Alan 11:18, 20 May 2007 (UTC) I just got done watching More Tribbles, More Troubles, can anyone show me where in the episode is it stated that the Klingons were firing photon torpedoes? I don't mean to be a stickler about this, but I'm very curious and this is bugging me. Even though they probably were photon torpedoes we saw in TAS and Prophecy, I don't think they ever come out and say it! --AC84 12:39, 28 May 2007 (UTC) :: Please reread my last comment. I emphasized my point, as I believe you overlooked it. --Alan 13:28, 28 May 2007 (UTC) We do have evidence, from Tuvok, that these are in fact disruptor blasts, because I'm quoting him at the moment, he said "That disruptor blast had a Klingon Signature" in the episode Prophecy, in Voyager. 01:25, September 3, 2009 (UTC) :I just watched another part, after the Klingon ship is hit a second time, one of the Klingons report that the "Forward Emitters are offline" so its not a normal torpedo mounted on the forward section. 01:35, September 3, 2009 (UTC) Magnetic Pulse Launcher?!?!? Where did that come from? Certainly not from "Errand of Mercy" remastered or no. It came from where the forward torp launcher is mounted, so it seems obvious it's a torpedo.Capt Christopher Donovan 07:22, 16 May 2007 (UTC) :I couldn't recall such a weapon either, and sure enough, there is no reference to magnetic pulse anything in the transcript for "Errand of Mercy". Now, I haven't seen the remastered version, but given that the magnetic pulse article has existed since 2005, it didn't come from any line or graphic added in the remastered episode. I honestly don't know where this weapon came from. --From Andoria with Love 09:52, 16 May 2007 (UTC) The remastered ep has the Klingon fleet firing blobs of light at Enterprise from their pods. These shots replace some stock footage of Enterprise being hit by blobs of light (presumedly torpedoes). The fire in question comes from the same place on the pod as the K'tinga's torp tubes in TMP. I'm gonna rework this stuff out, since it seems to me to be someone's speculation, rather than anything from canon.Capt Christopher Donovan 06:54, 17 May 2007 (UTC) ::The magnetic pulses ARE canon. The transcript that Shran/From Andoria with Love posted is incomplete. If you need proof, either pull out the DVDs or look up this website: REAL transcript for "Errand of Mercy". The phrase comes from the episode--specifically during the first battle scene. When Kirk and Spock are thrown onto the railing, Kirk screams out the words "magnetic pulses!" as if he knows exactly what kind of weapon has hit the ship and the alien origin of the weapon (Klingon). In Star Trek III, Kurg's Bird-of-Prey has an electrical energy weapon. I don't know how true this is, but I've heard from two different people that during a 2003 convention, Nimoy confirmed that the Klingon weapon fired from the forward canon was meant to be a magnetic pulse. Reportedly, Nimoy didn't like that the three Klingon ships in TMP used the same photon torpedo effect that the Enterprise used later on in the very same film (the wormhole scene). He felt that the Klingons shouldn't have had photon torpedoes as it wasn't consistent with "Errand of Mercy".--AC84 04:08, 18 May 2007 (UTC) :No worries, everything was sorted out. See Talk:Magnetic pulse. --From Andoria with Love 04:42, 18 May 2007 (UTC) D7 edit "mess" Just what was so messy about my reorganization of the picures? It eliminated those gorram screen-busting run-on galleries and broke up the article in a bit more interesting visual manner.Capt Christopher Donovan 02:18, 15 July 2007 (UTC) : I know how it was. The pictures were strewn all over the place; placed in locations that had nothing to do with the text content they were associated with. I agree there were too many bridge pictures, and removed the least interesting one, and left the gallery "split" into two 1x3 galleries, vs. a single 3+3+1 gallery. --Alan 02:33, 15 July 2007 (UTC) : Which was completely destroyed in your last edit. The gallery kept all the images in the appropriate section. Now tactical related images spill into 3 other subsections, push the engineering image way off from its associated section and throw the bridge galleries off. There is method to my madness, which can be clearly seen in the and articles. --Alan 02:35, 15 July 2007 (UTC) OK, maybe I was a bit too "ambitious" in my layout changes...see how you like the version up now. I think I kept things where you would want them but just tweaked a bit.Capt Christopher Donovan 02:47, 15 July 2007 (UTC) : Okay, this is just getting out of hand, and far too complicated for its worth. What you did was prove exactly why there is a gallery feature. Your 'clearall' just added almost a blank space that compromises the entire height of my screen. Additionally, I see no reason to add the additional random TAS image of the three ships. They play no part in what that section of the article discusses, nor really any part of the article as a whole discusses. Besides, a similar image, if not, the same ships already exist on the Unnamed D7 class starships page. Again, there was really nothing wrong with the way it was before; the text and images were well balanced and the images themselves were efficiently used, not just splayed out across the whole article overtaking large portions of it. --Alan 02:56, 15 July 2007 (UTC) Could we be having a conflict of "screen resolutions" here? I'm not seeing the problems you are describing. My monitor is set for 800x600...what are you using?Capt Christopher Donovan 02:59, 15 July 2007 (UTC) : The far less gargantuan 1027x768, which makes the article look like a book page versus a hideous newspaper column. --Alan Well, that's the source of the problem I suspect...not all of us have monitors big enough to do that particular resolution. For future reference, is there a STANDARD resolution that the pages are designed around?Capt Christopher Donovan 23:05, 15 July 2007 (UTC) Was the original D7 filming model (and/or the original AMT duplicate) purple? This article http://round2models.com/articles/klingon-color-theory-101 states that the original top hull colour for both was purple/blue and the rest of the ships were light green. The MA article makes no mention of purple and talks about other colours and blue-spill as the culprit. Pics that I've seen are inconclusive but the Round 2 article seems well researched and discusses the D7 repaints, too. Johnny Lightning released a purple top hulled D7 replica a few years back as a rare "White Lightning" version. That's what set this question in motion. BTW I do know it didn't appear purple on the show! Does the Phase II D7 still have the purple top hull too? Am I hallucinating? http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:D7_test_shot_for_Phase_II.jpg Any thoughts and/or evidence either way? Darth Duranium 03:59, January 11, 2012 (UTC) :Depends on your color perception I guess; Where you see purple/blue, I see sharkskin gray as is evidenced on the 2nd unused model as depicted here. My conviction is that the gray turns to a perceived purplish under certain lighting conditions as can be seen on the only known behind-the-scenes picture of the screen-used model (notice how the light green turns into gray). Doug Drexler has confirmed the two-tone colorscheme of the original shooting model on his as he photographed the shooting model for a 1970s magazine before its restoration. He has promised to publish these on his blog, but hasn't come around to it as of today. I have that magazine and the (unfortunately small) pics definitely show a color that is gray, not purple. The Phase II model is of course another newly built model, that turned into the K'T'inga. As far as I know, the picture you refer to is the only one of the model still in its d7 livery, and as for the color I can not confirm either way. Yet there are fotos showing the model being constructed. In them you can discern that the top has a pinkish/gray color. Whether or not this was the definitive color for this particular finish cannot be discerned.--Sennim 13:37, January 12, 2012 (UTC) ::Thanks for your input, Sennim. Seems that the Phase II D7's top hull is definitely pinky-purple so that does confirm something, anyway.Were the 70's magazine pictures these ones? http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff206/Scotty701/?action=view&current=B_MODELL_D7LQ_001.jpg I saw these posted elsewhere with a more magenta cast so everything looked pinky-purple, actually. These pics are so green cast it's hard to tell anything. According to something I read somewhere, the original D7 was borrowed back from the Smithsonian and used for Phase II tests (could those Phase II pics show the original model being refitted?) but a new (K'T'Inga) model was eventually built. This may be a case where we have a smidgen of conflicting colour information that makes things as clear as mud. I hope Drex can confirm one way or the other, but he's been pretty much AWOL since BSG B&C got started.Darth Duranium 03:59, January 13, 2012 (UTC) :Hello Darth, No the fotos you refer to are of a copy and were originally published in the Japanese book Star Trek Mechanics 4, which I own, and what is more it is a copy of the 2nd unused model (one horizontal "intercooler" thingy on the aft of the warp nacelle as opposed to the two on the actual filming model). The Drex fotos were published in Star Trek Giant Poster Book, issue 10. Drexler has a scan posted , but the fotos are unfortunately flatlit and lack contrast so he two colors are hard to make out. (he has published the Enterprise pics and his originals do have far more contrast) The original was indeed borrowed back and repainted with a 3-color scheme (see here) but eventually not used as it was considered too small (television standards of the 1970s were more demanding than those of the 1960s, also remember that the original was initially NOT constructed to serve as a filming model, but as a template for the molds of the AMT model kit and therefore has no internal lighting as it was constructed out of solid wood). The K't'inga model IS the Phase II model initially (that was the new model-twice the size of the original-). It was refurbished with a new paint job and a new lighting rig to be such to meet big screen requirements when Phase II became TMP...The one test foto of the Phase II model we are talking about is that of the new larger model (as it shows internal lighting which the original model had not) before it was refurbished into the K'T'inga--Sennim 09:29, January 13, 2012 (UTC) Evolved from D5? "This design had evolved from a classic design lineage dating back well into the 22nd century with the early D5 class battle cruisers. (ENT: "Judgment")" Isn't it more likely that it evolved from this design than the D5? - Mitchz95 03:23, February 28, 2012 (UTC) Split I propose a split of the "studio model" section to its own page for the following reasons: *Being large enough *and as such, the section is over shadowing its in-universe POV contents. Sennim (talk) 17:09, July 20, 2012 (UTC) :Seems good to me. - 01:46, July 21, 2012 (UTC) Moved to new page--Sennim (talk) 03:19, September 29, 2012 (UTC)